Comments on Brightwork Article on Oracle's Criticism of Rimini Street

Table of Contents: Select a Link to be Taken to That Section

Executive Summary

This article contains comments from the article or Oracle critique of Rimini Street.

Introduction

These comments are in response to the articles on forecast error measurement.

Comment #1: From EBS User

Rimini Street is telling customers what to download from Oracle support before cancelling their support and buying Rimini Street support. They are providing a roadmap of what to download and even the directory tree structure they want it in so they can use it after the fact to provide support to the customers. They have asked one customer I’m familiar with to download over 2 TBs of software and patches and stage it for future support needs by Rimini. This seems totally unethical in every way to me!!!

Oracle customers are entitled to download all software and patches for the software they own. This is done because these things are not available after support ends. Why do you view this as unethical? It would be like downloading a manual to a car you owned. Customer’s can’t download patches and software for software they do not own.

For you to propose that its unethical, they would have to be stealing from Oracle, that is downloading items they don’t have a right to download.

I have to say, this sounds very much like an Oracle aligned person distributing fake information. Oracle is a supremely unethical firm, so it is difficult to make the argument of fairness if one is supporting Oracle because of Oracle’s pattern of behavior. We have Oracle rated along with SAP as the two least honest software vendors in the entire enterprise software space. https://www.brightworkresearch.com/softwaredecisions/honest-vendor-ratings-oracle/

The lies I have found Oracle telling their customers, that are shared with me by Oracle customers are jaw dropping.

I have stopped talking to or interacting with Oracle resources because I found they were continually providing me with false information.

Comment #2: From EBS User

The key here is I said it’s unethical and not illegal. I understand as a customer I have the right to download the software, patches, knowledge articles, etc but the fact that Rimini is instructing clients what to download so they can support them prior to terminating Oracle support, in my opinion is unethical. They know it’s illegal for them to download Oracle’s property themselves so they are instructing to client to do it for their benefit so they can reference it after the fact. This basically says they can’t support us without Oracle provided patches, software, etc. I don’t work for Oracle, this is my honest opinion and maybe my standard of what is ethical and what is not is different that yours. I work for a manufacturing company that has been running Oracle products including EBS for 20+ years, so no Oracle aligned fake info here!!!

It is difficult to see how it is unethical to do so if they have the right to all of the material they are downloading. This is all material that the customer has paid for. If I download the manuals for my car and choose not to use the dealership for maintenance, but go to JiffyLube and a non-manufacturer affiliated automotive shop is that unethical? Since when is the control over how an item is serviced the exclusive province of the manufacturer? The manufacturer has the right to sell the product. They have no right to dictate how the item is serviced or who services the product. To propose the opposite is to enforce legal monopolies in the servicing of all goods.

Did you buy a KitchenAid mixer?

You better take it to a KitchenAid dealer and service that mixer exactly as laid out by KitchenAid. And if you don’t well that is unethical?

Certainly, RS can’t download the patches/documentation/etc.., so they are instructing a party that has the legal right to download it to do so.

I also question if it is possible to do anything unethical against Oracle. Oracle is a disease on the software industry. Their practices reduce the industry’s overall ethics as people leave Oracle and then bring Oracle’s horrible business practices to other vendors. This has recently happened to Infor, and they have gone into steep decline ethically after being infected by Oracle resources.

Oracle cannot stop lying to its customers and chisel their customers for far more money than they deserve.

Can you engage in unethical behavior against Satan? I don’t think so, as pure evil can’t be defended.

This is why I find any claim in support of Oracle to be odd. It would be like saying that the most horrible humans need defending. If one is Satan or worships Satan, then one loses the high ground to complain about fairness. Oracle resources (not saying you are one) routinely claim some fairness principle, but it is never about Oracle acting fairly, so it is hypocrisy. In the Oracle world view, Oracle can break every moral standard, but then still have the right to complain — and for them to be taken seriously.

I laugh at any Oracle employee whoever uses the term honesty, or integrity. But Oracle employees will do this — they will lie to you about their intentions — and they expect not to be laughed at. This is why I created an article that explained hypocrisy to Oracle resources. http://bit.ly/2FYQBGi. As soon as an Oracle resource begins to utter statements on LinkedIn, I immediately begin to tune them out. I don’t care what Oracle resources have to say on any topic. I have been so burned by previous false statements from Oracle resources, that they have ruined their credibility.

Secondly, and this is a highly related point, Oracle has an unreasonable margin in their support business. Why does Oracle get to receive a support margin that is identical to that of international cocaine traffickers? See the article How do SAP and Oracle’s Support Profit Margins Compare to Pablo Escobar? for the identical margin of Pablo Escobar and Oracle and SAP in support.

Why do Oracle and SAP get to provide such shoddy support?

I have this article link included in the body of the article above, but I notice you did not comment on it. Why not? Is the margin Oracle makes on its support not relevant for your observation?

You seem to be making very one-sided arguments. It is also well known that many people that work for Oracle customers in IT eventually become captured by the vendor. Are you under the spell of Oracle — do Oracle account managers flatter you and make you feel “part of the Oracle team,” or do you think you are making the observations you do with independence?

Once you get Oracle resources to speak honestly, they will say, “look, our customers are stupid, their decision-makers are unknowledgeable — so we have the right to take what we want.” The entire philosophy of Oracle is taken from Conan the Barbarian.

Yes, IT departments are generally not knowledgeable, and most IT decision-makers are easily flattered and corrupted — but that still does not make it right to fleece your customers. Trying making this argument to an Oracle resource, and you will normally get called naive or “don’t understand how the real world works.” This is why I am expressing that virtually no one who works at Oracle cares what is right. The culture and way of operating does not allow it. To stay employed at Oracle, you must lie, and you must be willing to deceive your customers.

You made the statement that you may have different standards of what is unethical then I do. But the problem is that you cannot remain consistent, and point out an issue that is first — clearly not unethical (again, does the customer own the items they are downloading or don’t they?), while ignoring real unethical behavior on the part of the vendor. It indicates a peculiar interest on your part about selectively applying ethical standards. In some cases, you are hypersensitive, even manufacturing up an unethical claim, while Oracle can get away with bloody murder, and you seemingly remain silent.

So let me explain an important standard I follow, which is the absence of hypocrisy. To take any ethical claim seriously, the entity being defended (in this case, Oracle) must be itself ethical. If not, and if the entity demonstrates a complete disregard for ethics, then there is no reason to listen to any argument they make based upon ethics.

Comment #3: EBS User

hmmm….and you accused me of being an Oracle aligned person distributing fake information! This post makes it evident that you are clearly biased against Oracle. All I’m saying is that from my point of view it’s unethical and violates my personal standard of ethics. Your analogy with the car is off base because we are talking about software. Getting something mechanical serviced is not the same. After all, they don’t let you download all the software controlling the car and hand it over to JiffyLube to service it (not that they could service software). Believe me, I have my issues with Oracle and yes as a customer I do have the legal right to download the software while I’m covered under a support/maintenance agreement. However, if these 3rd party vendors are offering to replace Oracle support, why do they need you to pre-download 2 TBs of information so they can support you. If I’m paying them for support, I expect them to provide it and not just refer me to patches (software fixes developed by Oracle) that I’ve already downloaded myself from Oracle.

Well, if having an awful opinion of Oracle entirely based upon experience, research and Oracle customers reaching out to me to share horror stories and if me continually catching Oracle lying — then that will create a bias. I don’t like listening to Oracle employees and don’t find Oracle credible. So yes, this is now a bias. But the result of analysis and research is conclusions, and any conclusion can be said to be a bias. But that is not a useful use of the term because it conflates a conclusion based upon research and analysis with a preconceived notion, ignorance, or a financial bias.

I also think the industry would be better if Oracle ceased to exist, and all of their code was made open source. But unlike almost all analysts and IT media — I don’t have a financial bias. That is Oracle does not pay me, and no one pays me to be critical of Oracle.

And I don’t have to tell you that Oracle routinely ranks as the lowest in customer satisfaction. So it is a sentiment shared by a lot of Oracle’s customers. And there is also no question as to Oracle’s ethics — they are horrible. Back to the main observation — I think all third-party support wants the most possible material downloaded as it makes their job easier. If the customer owns it, then that takes care of that issue. It is not unethical to access things that you own but just have not downloaded. You still have the right to download them until you break from Oracle support. Without the third party support entity’s prodding, the customer would forget to do it. I know, as I try to get companies to do logical things all the time, and it is a huge effort. I want to grant you something. When third party support companies got into trouble, they overpromised and said they could support things that they really could not. This has been where there have been cases of violating the IP of vendors. Of course, my issue with this is that no mega vendor has any respect for others’ IP. AWS routinely takes IP from smaller entities and competes with them.

So I understand that you think it is unethical. But as for why a car is different than software is not understandable to me. It sounds like you oppose third party support. But why is software a special category of third party support? Also, the fact is that almost all of your support money (I assume you are on Oracle support) is flushed down the toilet. Oracle uses it to prop up what is a declining business (which helps them hide this fact from Wall Street) and for every dollar you give them, they invest 10 cents into what they offer to your company in support.

Recall that all automotive manufacturers opposed their customers using independent auto servicing shops, even though like SAP and Oracle support, dealerships tend to have lower ratings and far higher costs. So you said there is a difference between cars and software, but why do you say this?

Now that we have gone through your argument for why you think downloading software and documentation owned by the customer, at the direction of Rimini Street is wrong. How about this article. Do you see the deceptiveness of Oracle’s arguments? Also, you said you had your own problems with Oracle. How about sharing what these issues are. To say that you have your own issues with Oracle, but not to bring up what they made me question the issue? You stated that you are completely independent. So I would like to hear about these experiences.

Later Comment

EBSUser — you have had ample time to answer the questions I posed, and you decided not to do it.

So I am back to my initial premise – the claim you made about downloading patches, updates, and documentation that customers own is neither illegal nor unethical. You essentially have concocted fake issue — while Oracle has a litany of unethical things they do to customers. And the only thing you have to say is, “you have your issues with Oracle.” You also are not willing or able to explain how 3rd party support for the software is different from non-dealer automotive repair. However, you assert that it is while disappearing when asked to explain why this is true.

You also have a problem with being called biased in favor of Oracle, but a person who brings up concocted claims — that also seeks to mislead readers into thinking there is something to them, can fairly be called biased in favor of Oracle. And this is not some rare thing. Oracle shops are crawling with IT resources that are in the tank for Oracle.

Let me guess; Oracle is on your resume, someplace? And you don’t much care about how much Oracle is overcharging your company on support. You find your relationship to Oracle to be more valuable than your allegiance to your employer — as you can always hop to another Oracle shop, mainly if you show that you are loyal to Oracle — which means supporting Oracle getting a 90% margin out of the support it charges to your employer.

How close am I hitting to your situation?

Would You Like to Comment and Have it Added to This Thread?

Just provide your comment in the chatbox in the lower left of this screen.